lassesen 1:53 am on March 31, 2016

Best two probiotics to start probiotic approach

Most CFSers have challenges with money as well as being hyper-sensitive to many things. When we come to probiotics — there is always the risk of a herx.

There are two items that are likely best — in terms of impact, low herx risk and the cost.

Symbioflor-2: It’s liquid probiotic from Germany, available on Amazon.de
https://cfsremission.wordpress.com/2016/03/01/symbioflor-2-another-e-coli-probiotic/
Miyarisan – it is from Japan – and available on Amazon.uk and Amazon.com
https://cfsremission.wordpress.com/2015/10/19/miyarisan-clostridium-butyricum-revisited/

Both allow a very slow ram up. An easy ramp up because you can easily start at 1/15 th of the normal dosage without having to cut pills or break apart capsules.

A normal dosage of Symbioflor-2 is 15 drop.
For Miyarisan it is 15 small tablets.

So you can start at just one of each. They are also relative to others cheap,

Miyarisan: $17.16 £20.10
Symbioflor-2 EUR 19.46 (delivers to US) for 2 x 50ml bottles each bottle has 50 dosages of 15 drops)

Chris Pfeiffer 3:50 pm on March 31, 2016

Check Ebay – a bit cheaper

From: CFS Remission To: cpmisc@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 9:53 PM Subject: [New post] Best two probiotics to start probiotic approach #yiv2492065485 a:hover {color:red;}#yiv2492065485 a {text-decoration:none;color:#0088cc;}#yiv2492065485 a.yiv2492065485primaryactionlink:link, #yiv2492065485 a.yiv2492065485primaryactionlink:visited {background-color:#2585B2;color:#fff;}#yiv2492065485 a.yiv2492065485primaryactionlink:hover, #yiv2492065485 a.yiv2492065485primaryactionlink:active {background-color:#11729E;color:#fff;}#yiv2492065485 WordPress.com | lassesen posted: “Most CFSers have challenges with money as well as being hyper-sensitive to many things. When we come to probiotics — there is always the risk of a herx.There are two items that are likely best — in terms of impact, low herx risk and the cost. Symbio” | |
jrfdd 7:00 am on April 8, 2016

I keep wandering around this site, from post to post, trying to understand them and understand if/how they are connected. So many apply to my case, but I cannot make heads or tails of any order to it all. I just wrote a HUGE long comment TRYING to get the gist of it all encompassed in a comment here and then I clicked the wrong button and it was all GONE. As if I never wrote any of it. I am starting a “probiotic approach” treatment plan, based on my reading and understanding of various posts you have written regarding it. But I also have questions about your histamine post (I tested positive (twice) on Mayo clinic’s 11 Beta-Prostaglandin F2 Alpha, 24 Hour, Urine test for unknown reasons – extremely extensive bone marrow testing revealed no abnormalities), your biofilms post (my doc has me taking NAC 600 three times a day), your CoQ10 and vitamin Bs post, and God help me, if I click on and am able to understand anything in the feline and canine one, I will most likely have questions about that too! But now it is too late and I am too tired to start again.

Immediately I just want to know any dangerous herx signs/symptoms and what I should do about it. I do have an overwhelming avalanche of health issues, the ones that seem likely to me to possibly be pertinent are; 1) Over two years of unexplained (despite very intensive testing of all sorts) high wbc count and SED rate. 2) Long standing (at least nine years) constant tachycardia (sitting resting rate 100 bpm). 3) Two congenital heart defects that effectively counter act each other so we generally ignore them. Considering the symptoms of sepsis (which I understand you to say are also the symptoms of herxing), and the mechanisms of herxing (toxins flooding my system), I am not sure I should even do it, but if I am I would like as much info about potential dangers of herxing, with or without the specific existing health issues my body is already dealing with, as is possible.

My plan is to take General Biotics Equilibrium and these two probiotics suggested for two weeks each, one after the other. Then in six weeks when I am back at the beginning I will start the Equilibrium for two weeks again, but add another one week later, so I am taking two different ones at a time. From then on I will rotate through them for two weeks each, taking two at a time, but which two will change from week to week. NOTE, I am purposely using three probiotics you have indicated are lower risk of causing herxing.

I would appreciate hearing any thoughts you have concerning my planned probiotics treatment and my concerns about herxing. Also, any thoughts on how long I continue rotating through these three. As we have previously discussed I am also planning on trying Lactobacillus rhamnosus strain GG (LGG) and/or Lactobacillus plantarum (LP) next winter to see if they aid in my body’s ability to absorb orally ingested vitamin D and maintain optimal levels of it in my blood, so I will be stopping taking these three then, if I have not already.
- lassesen 11:44 am on April 8, 2016
  
  Concerning herx, I have done three posts on this aspect. Whether you herx or not vary from individual to individual. This also goes for how much herx people tolerate. I have known people that ended up crawling to the bathroom for three weeks and barely getting out of bed from a herx. They were happy with the post-herx change.
  
  The questions you ask are valid, and likely should be discussed with your MD who can monitor labs…
  
  https://cfsremission.wordpress.com/2016/01/15/controlling-a-herxheimer-reaction/
  https://cfsremission.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/dealing-with-the-herx/
  https://cfsremission.wordpress.com/treatment/microflora-and-autoimmune-illnesses/changes-of-microflora-producing-herxheimer-reactions/
  - jrfdd 4:08 pm on April 8, 2016
    
    Thanks!
  - jrfdd 2:37 am on May 7, 2016
    
    Now I am seeing in your March 1, 2016 post about Symbioflor-2, NOT to take it at the same time as C. butyricum MIYAIRISAN Probiotics. I also understood you to say NOT to take either with lactobacilli probiotics. Is that right? I thought you said to rotate through on two week intervals, taking 2-3 at a time. Which ones can I take together?
    - lassesen 5:23 am on May 7, 2016
      
      One of our shortage of knowledge is what interacts with what. Probiotic A and B may take some of each other out – i.e. less net effect.
      
      My attitude is that given the shortage of cash that is the reality for most CFSer’s budgets, it is better to do keep them separated to get the maximum benefit.
      
      The following combinations have been reported to me by readers of having much greater bang than taking either alone.
      
      Symbioflor-2 and Mutaflor – both E.Coli probiotics
      
      d-ribose and Prescript Assist
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sandy 4:44 pm on April 23, 2017

I have mcs multiple chemical sensitivity me/cfs many years prior.
A few years back I had good results with biogaia a strain of L. Reuteri I have been on a probiotic hunt since.
I am not taking vita tree… was wondering if you could take a look at it and give my your opinion.
I took florastore years ago and one pill was all I took I can’t recall the reaction but it was bad enough to stop my using it. I believe it was a yeast infection a bad one.

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